FotoWala | Photo Tips | The 'Photo Nazi' | Sephi Bergerson Photography

The ‘Photo Nazi’!

Posted on March 16th, 2010

Tags

Some of you might call me a Photo Nazi but i think it is important to put the discussion out there. Every now and then I get emails from young photography enthusiasts or aspiring photographers asking for advice or showing me their portfolio seeking opinion. It sometimes takes me a few days but I always answer these mail, trying to be as constructive and respectful as possible, but I suddenly realized that this is no help to anyone and decided to change my approach. I call it the honest and brutal truth!

Here is a mail I received a couple of days ago from Sunil (real name and contact information with me):

Now I know you get mails like these a lot and I am pretty sure you wouldn’t read it. But sir I have heard a lot about you and am in love with your work. Actually I want some help from you. I am resident of Delhi pursuing my engineering from here. I have a passion of photography. I know its just a hobby but I quite know I am not made to do what i am doing right now and will do ahead. I took some photographs and here’s a link to my gallery.
(flickr gallery attached here)
It would be an honor if you could just take a look at them and comment if they have got some life or are worthless. For once I wanna work in this field of photography and want to know if should give it a try as a professional. I do not quite have any knowledge about it and the photographs were taken by myself using a 4.1 mp digital camera. Looking for help from you in any way.

Thank you!

Sunil Agarwal

This is how I replied:

Dear Sunil,

You are right, I do get many emails like this, and the truth is I usually answer as politely as possible but I do not think this helps anyone.

The fact is that I think it is disrespectful to me and to this profession for you to be writing with a ‘portfolio’ like this, with images of sunsets and dirty children.

It is probably not your fault as you are a victim of the digital age, but I’ll give you this alarm clock now that will hopefully wake you up.

Everyone suddenly has a camera and wants to be a photographer. You take pictures and they are immediately transferred to your computer for you to upload to facebook. Easy. You don’t even have to spend money on film and processing, not to mention wait for the film to come back from the lab. Do you even know what shutter speed and aperture means? So you are an engineer, a hotel manager, a housewife or whatever, and you fell pray to the culture of quick satisfaction. You want to know what your pictures are worth and instead of picking up a book or professional magazines and reading to learn a bit about photography so that you know what you are actually doing, you write to someone you know has done all this and ask him to give you a shortcut. Well son, there is no shortcut! I have spent two years of sixty hours a week at a photography school, and more than twenty years of hard work after that to get to where I am right now, and I respect my profession very much. Go out there and learn something on your own first before you write to me again. There is nothing in your pictures that I haven’t seen before from hundreds of people who did not even want to become photographers.

I know this is not what you were hoping to hear but believe me, this is the most constructive criticism anyone will give you for a long, long time. If after this you continue on your own than maybe, just maybe, you have what it takes to become a photographer.

Good luck!

Sephi Bergerson
Photographer

And I haven’t even mentioned photoshop and all other photo manipulation techniques that people mistake for photography . . .

You've read the post, what's next? If you like this post, I mean REALLY like it, then consider bookmarking or help us promote it. Many thanks.

Ans Tech

I had problem relating to your post earlier, because I thought and I still think that you could have always replied to him or conveyed him the message in a politer way but that's ok, like you said, it's honest and brutal truth.

Today, my friend asked me for help. He was getting a DSLR with a 18-55 & 70-300 mm lens at certain price and he wanted to know if it was a good deal. Price was the only thing he asked me about and I assumed that he must have done a fair deal of research before choosing that specific camera model and kit lenses. But after few trivial discussions came the second question,

So what is the difference between a 18-55 and a 70-300 lens ?

That is when I could immediately relate to this post and commenting here now.
Crystal B

Dilip, My initial comment addressed that. But really, maybe he wants to waste a couple of years of his time taking pictures, we are not to judge that for him. Maybe he did need to hear the brutul truth, but there are other ways to go about addressing it.

I said, "Perhaps the simpler thing would be to ask if they could do it all over again with film." If they can, then move forward with the conversation. Perhaps I'm just more traditional in many ways, and feel if they can replicate their work (or at least some of it) in film, then they aren't just getting lucky with digital. It's not so easy to snap 1000 shots and delete the 950 that suck in film, like you can with digital. Which was why I said that.
Dilip Bhoye

@ Crystal Good to hear that your passion for photography has survived.

This discussion is not about how many begging on street or how many dumping their money in foreign accounts, it will open entire new debate.

I feel Sephi’s reply to Sunil is brutal truth.. It might save his couple of years wasting time in taking picture or make him a pro. It’s amazing to see how digital photography changed people’s perception about taking pictures. When I go out to shoot some events, I saw storm of DSLRs shooter around me. Canon’s rebel and Nikon’s D40/90 made all this possible. Everyone can afford to buy tools to be pro but making carrier in photography still remains tough.
Crystal B

Don,

I live right in the middle of corn country in the good ole US of A. The few local pros in my area are as I said, off limits to anyone approaching the business as a newbie. For me, their work is well below par anyways, which probably comes across as a very snobbish thing to say, but if you saw it, you would probably agree. Their industry is not even one I want be involved in, so their reception to my reaching out was a little frustrating to me, and I have branched out further to photographers within a reasonable distance to me, but received similar responses. Stone cold silence.

This all happened over the course of many months two years ago, and I have since taken a long step backwards with my work thinking that perhaps I was the reason for the silence, my personality, my work, I have done a lot of soul searching, a LOT of learning, etc since. I pulled my entire portfolio offline, disappeared so to speak and have not put it back online. I have evolved and grown. I have changed. I have given up the quest of finding a local photographer to talk shop with. I didn't even want a mentor, despite that I knew it would be a highly beneficial route to go down.

Now, I'm slowly coming back out of the woodwork, down a route that feels more at home to me, but as an underdog. One who has no elder to turn to for advice, but only what I find out here, what I find in my heart, and what I find in blogs of those I admire, books, lectures, and learning tools available. (And there are many of them out there.) I'm not who fell into the megapixel trap, or the shoot and click trap. I know my equipment, inside and out. I know I have what it takes. I know what obstacles I face. I know what I need to do to get from point A to point B. I also know I face it alone. And it's okay.

It's been a 9 year long journey to get where I am today, which is almost right where I was 9 years ago, minus a couple of cameras. But I'm okay with that. It's how my life goes. These 9 years have shown me exactly everything I don't want to do. What I shouldn't do. What I'm not good at. What I am good at. What I LOVE to do. In 9 more years, hopefully I'll finally be where I want to be.

Sorry for the ramble.
Don Giannatti

Crystal.

Terrible that you can not find mentors or people willing to help.
What part of the world do you live in?
Have you approached shooters in your area and been told 'no'?

Hopefully Seshi and I could be of assistance.
Crystal B

Sephi,

I didn't misread anything at all. I will have to proclaim total tiredness and absolutely grumpiness in my response. In my part of the world, finding someone who is even open to approach, nevermind who would even respond, reply, and give time to someone considering a career is impossible. At least in my neck of the woods. While I realize this is not your normal response, just that you even gave one floored me a bit, and it caught me on a bad night. Granted, I probably should have just walked away, and kept my smart mouth to myself.

I have actually seen the Soup Nazi episode, though I do detest Seinfeld, and it was amusing, but I didn't find this amusing, and perhaps that is where the differences lie. Not everyone "newbie" with a camera has no knowledge of how their gear works just because they haven't invested thousands of thousands of dollars and time into formal education. I do realize that is not the majority, but this boy may not have been in the lumped majority you threw him into. It's hard to say, since we were not the ones who saw his work.

But then, I'm also a champion for the underdog. So, perhaps I simply sit on the wrong side of the fence here and do just need to walk away.
Don Giannatti

Sorry for another reply...

I forgot to mention that only 1 or 2 of every 10 requests ever take the time to actually do what I want them to do in order to earn a critique.

That tells you something right there, ya know.
Don Giannatti

Sephi...
We can team up...
Good cop / Bad cop...

maybe do some good with the folks who simply think it as easy as buying a couple of million megapixels. I studied for years and years, apprenticed for years, struggle for years, sank every penny into my business for years. I still study the masters, the contemporary and the emerging artists in this industry/art.

It does pain me to see how few demean the art, history and rich legacy that photography has with a 'whocares' mentality and a "I don't care to learn, just show me how..." work ethic.

Keep up the great work.
Don Giannatti

I agree with the sentiment. I too agree that telling people what they want to hear, or sugarcoating real advice is actually more cruel than telling it "like it is."

However, you really didn't give him an answer. More of a lecture.
Maybe it is a difference in style, but I think that positive leading is more effective than negative leading.

"The fact is that I think it is disrespectful to me and to this profession for you to be writing with a ‘portfolio’ like this, with images of sunsets and dirty children."

Disrespectful I do not understand. We can not suppose he has any disrespect in mind when asking, so the transference of our "perceived" disrespect is, well, disrespectful in itself.

I would have given him more leadership, perhaps with some direction.

Told the truth about the images: They are possibly cliche, and not of the level to be considered viable yet.

Go to these websites:
Go to the library and get this book. And this one.
Read about these photographers.
Find examples of photographers who are shooting.
Create a reason to shoot the images and then create as many as you possibly can.
Edit profusely.
Get back to me with a set of no more than 20 images.

I also get a fairly high amount of these requests.

My response is this.

Before I get started, I must look at only 20 images.
Place them in a 'set' on Flickr or PhotoShelter.
Put them in an order you think is the best presentation.
Send me a link.
Leave emotional commitment to these images in a box.
Understand that any type of a critique is simply the opinion of the critic. Not the God's Truth.

Then I will do it.

Random images, Flickr streams, every freekin image ever taken?

Nope.

Maybe different ideologies at work. My feeling is that I do NOT have all the answers, but then I feel compelled to try to uplift, support and ultimately 'grow' the person requesting my help.

Good post, Sephi.
Important discussions.
sephi

@ Don, Thank you for this thoughtful comment. I agree with your points. I have nothing against positive leadership obviously, and I'm glad you do it. If you noticed the beginning of my post, It is usually the way I respond and the only fact that I posted this correspondence is because it is so unusual for me. I stand behind my words and believe that every once in a while it is good to be controversial.
jeremy north

Although it is ironic that one can make a good living from food photography in a country where millions have to beg in order to eat, of course I don't think that Sunil is a beggar. He has a digital camera after all.

You say you keep your ides to yourself. Excuse me but this is a blog. Sunil sent you an email and you broadcast it to the world along with your comment on it.

As I said, I agree with your viewpoint of digital photographers. They do indeed need to look at other photographer's work and advice. That is presumably why he followed, and admired, your blog.( I use the past tense there, as I imagine he'll stop following it after your sympathetic response.) I subscribed to your blog for quite a while, and it was because of this arrogant post that I decided to post a reply before unsubscribing. To your credit you published my criticism, along with those of Crystal and Gavin who both agree with me. Crystal is right that 'pros' are getting jittery about being undercut by newbies. (though this is not the issue here)

However you've done nothing to show any humility in your response to these comments. You say that all you said was for Sunil to read a bit more but that is simply not true. You went to town on him, beating him up with film, college and a twenty years of bitterness it seems. To assume that you represent your 'profession' is beyond belief, as is your claim that it is disrespectful for him to have asked your opinion on his photos. If he becomes a better photographer as a result is because of your harsh words, if not then it is his fault. Please don't insult our intelligence.

Think about it. You are a guest in his country, he admires your work. Why would it be so difficult to put yourself in his position and, even though his photos may have been rubbish, been more friendly?

In the mean time what would you rather, a bridge built by a photographer, or a photograph by an engineer? Society needs people like him.
sephi

@Jeremy:
1. Many ironic things in life but mind you that India has more millionaires than the entire population of the United States! People make a living here better than in many other places in the world and the economy is booming.
2. His real name is not Sunil. I posted the mail with a changed name and did not give a link to the gallery he sent.
3. 'Sunil' had sent me a mail, thanking me for my reply! you have the right to unsubscribe of course. I respect that.
4. There is no bitterness in my life my friend. I am a happy man! :-) I think you can see this in my pictures!
5. I don't assume I represent anyone but myself.
6. I say that if my response makes him change something and want to evolve than it is a good one. I do not take responsibility for his progress.
7. I don't think that the fact that I live in India means that I have to be nice to all Indians, all the time!
8. "Society needs people like him"? Did I order him to be executed??

Anyway, let's leave it at that.
Dilip Bhoye

Few people understand the simple fact that photography is form of Art and Art require one to pursue it with passion, devotion and determination. There is no short cut even its digital age. Institutes, online, offline learn wherever possible. If you are seeking help from a pro in this field believe me, it’s tough thing.

We don’t have that good ‘support system’ for art in India from parents and society. To be or not to be photog or artist? This is the question of many sunils out there. Only you can make a decision and once you made it, follow with faith.

Other version of this topic: http://bit.ly/bLwj4S
Crystal B

Perhaps the simpler thing would be to ask if they could do it all over again with film. While your points are indeed accurate and well simply true, it is as someone said arrogant, albeit common in this industry. While every tom dick and harry out there with a camera of any kind thinks they are a photographer these days, there are obvious ways to point out no you are not without making every professional out there seem like a photo nazi. But while it would appear as you and you alone have been given the sole title of that, I can attest that you are not the only one. Any pro who feels threatened by a newbie stepping onto the scene can be one as well. You indeed are in good company amongst many.
sephi

@ Crystal: Thank you for your comment. No one gave me this title of Photo Nazi! I took it from an episode on Seinfeld called the Soup Nazi. It was atually a very funny episode. What is also funny is that you think I am threatened in any way and this is why I answered like this. I'm afraid you have missed the whole point of my reply and this post.
Gavin

I get a lot of these student requests too. Occasionally, I've felt like drafting a reply like yours. However, it might have been better to have kept this kind of reaction private. Otherwise you open yourself up to responses like Jeremy's which you might struggle to defend yourself against.

If people are writing to you then they probably deserve the respect of a more thoughtful response. Be honest, for sure, but there's no need to be cruel. And if you are going to be cruel then it might seem a little thoughtless to draw attention to it. That hubris accusation might be hard to shake off.

If nothing else, think of the karma!

I do sympathise but I've come up with a draft response that aims to keep expectations in the real world whilst still offering some encouragement. I was once one of those wanabees - still am in many senses - I'd have been crushed by your response although I guess it would have made me even more determined to get good enough to steal your clients.

So it's not all bad ;)
sephi

@Gavin: Thank you for this comment Gavin. I think it is important to open this kind of subject to discussion and am not hiding from people's reactions, nor do I feel a need to defend myself against anything.

I answer every single mail that I get, and believe me there are a lot. every one of the people get a thoughtful answer, but as I said in the beginning of the post, I thought it is time to tell the truth in a more blunt manner. The images sent of sunsets and sky are nothing less than simple digital images taken by someone who had just picked up a camera. All I suggested was for Sunil to open a book first instead of coming to me for criticism at this stage as it is a complete waste of time. I think it gives good karma to be honest :-) I know what you say of course, and I do try to be nice to everyone as much as possible but I do think that a blunt honest and brutal truth could be what some people actually need. Like you put it, it would have made you try harder and this is what I meant to do. If he tries hard than this was a very important reply. if he is crushed than he does not have what it takes to get into this field and I am also doing him a favor. so not all bad :-) cheers
Anders

Agree with your points, Sephi.

What have happen with photography, especially stock photography is a result of cheaper tools.
I'm a designer (web)and the same thing happened in my field years before the digital cameras were in everybody's hands.
It has happened in the music industry too and now that HD video in cheap cameras is common, a ton of wannabe movie directors will appear before long.
What I saw in the design world, was that people lost interest after a while. You still had to learn the "rules", many of them are the same as the photography rules.
jeremy north

While I agree with your analysis about digital age photographers, you made your point with the tact of an Israeli politician.

Your reply is both smug and arrogant, typical of a photographer who makes a good living from others who are willing to pay for it.

Were you to live on his means, could you afford a two year college education? Probably not. Marie Antoinette suggestion for people who hadn't enough bread to eat, "let them eat cakes". Not unlike yours, go to college, then get a job in photography. Staggering hubris.

You should keep your photo nazism to yourself.
sephi

@ Jeremy: WOW!! :-) "The tact of an Israeli politician". This is funny. Too bad they are really so bad isn't it? :-)

Please note that I do keep my ideas to myself! The original mail was sent to ME and I replied. I then posted it on MY blog and YOU came to read it here. I open this subject for discussion because I know different people see it differently and I'd like to hear what you think.

I'm afraid that you got things a bit confused here. Sunil does have means to go to school. He actually goes to an engineering college. What makes you think that if he is Indian he needs to beg for a living?? All I said is that he should open a book to get an idea about photography before writing me. what exactly is wrong with that? You don't agree with my style of response? It's OK. you don't have to. But what I said was right and I believe people like Sunil need to hear it! cheers
Shilpa

Hey Sephi,

My grandfather was a professional photographer, and even though I myself do not have the knowledge or the expertise I love and admire the art. I would like to believe, I understand what goes into good photography though( thanks to my grandpa ;) ) It is really sad, the kind of notion people have about "photography". It has become kind of a race, or competition, to see who has got the "bigger", "most expensive" SLR camera. People who have no clue how to frame a picture, leave alone the technicalities, walk around with a D90 clicking pictures of every branch, every pebble, every leaf they come across ( Dont even get me started on the profile pictures :P ) I hate it that owning an SLR has become more of a style statement and nothing to do with the slightest inclination or interest in photography. Well, Maybe its just me...I take it a little too personally... :P
Im so glad, Sephi,you did the right thing... and if ever i send you a "portfolio", I would expect nothing less... Cheers Photo Nazi!
christophe wedding photo

Great article Sephi! you're SO right when you're talking about 'the victim of the digital age'... I think the expression is extremely appropriate. One could also write a complete story about the (ab)use of lightroom presets!!! Quick results to hide picture weaknesses...
Mumbai Paused

Truth well told.
anrb

Sephi, I'm a big fan of your work. I share this approach and have always thought about it myself. I'm an emerging photographer myself. But I'l make it clear that I never send my work to people and ask their comments although I would love to hear them. I spend hours and hours studying and practicing photography because i enjoy doing it.

There is another problem to this. We live in a world were we have to be politically correct and pleasing. People always want to hear what they want to hear. If you tell them an honest answer which is something they don't want to hear, you are always regarded as a Nazi or someone who is unfriendly. The immediate example I could think of is when Sarah Palin was nominated as the VP candidate, people knew that she is stupid but calling her stupid made them a feminist. So there was very few people who called her stupid fearing that they would be branded a feminist. I really have no intention of arguing if Palin is stupid or not. That is not my intention here. We live in a social media era were we have to be friendly with everyone. There are instances where people create a facebook fan page for their photography with stupid pictures and ask you to become a fan and we are forced to become one because we fear loosing them in our facebook fan page. People should grow up, develop a thick skin for negative comments. The journey in this world has give me that. I have a set a friends whom i treat as mentors who give me more negative comments than positive ones. The key is to find such people.

This post is an eye opener to many who are in flickr who comment on thousands of other's stream just by saying "wonderful picture" or "nice job" or "excellent" just so that they will get equal number of views and comments to their piece of crap. I like your stand on this one but at the same time you have the liberty to do this because you have already proved enough in this field and every other pro photog should do the same. But do emerging photogs like us have the same liberty?
Shirley

Ouch!

The mail's fairly curt but yes, were I recieving a truckloada mails guess I'd be annoyed as well. From the post above I cant really tell if Sunil has been doing any reading in the past but I guess from the pics you've seen he needs to.

I think it is fab that you are being honest about the pics at the end of the day. It will only do Sunil and the likes good (me included).
And i get what you're saying about people getting hold of cameras and thinking of themselves as photographers. Doesnt help that people around also tend to look at anybody owning a DSLR/ complicated looking camera as professionals... Although i've been shooting on n off for the last 8 years but pursuing photography more seriously in the last 1 year i often come across several people who look at my pics and ask me 'which cam' as if the camera would do everything for me if I just pointed it at something. Curt as it may be I often tell them this: you can buy a fancy large camera, but you cant buy perspective.
mattbeaty

I think you should continue handing out these alarm clock responses. We need to be honest with each other and if somebody doesn't have the portfolio, its totally fair to tell them that. If they don't get discouraged and they continue learning about photography, perhaps they do have what it takes - more power to 'em.
Ashvary Jain

Hii Sephi,

While reading, in the beginning, it seemed like sunil had story same as mine..
A 12th class boy, very serious about photography, but a U turn came when he just shared the flickr gallery, asking for comments and said that want to be a pro photographer, but dont know much about photography..

Even I am passionate about photography, but then I am putting hard to learn things, seeing various works, scratching books/magazines and to bring improvement in my work (this might sound like self praise) and what I feel is that this difference arise due to making "timpass" and getting "serious".. I am serious coz I am passionate about it..
Nidhi Narula

Hi Sephi,

I have been following your work as a source of Inspiration for quite sometime and i do appreciate the Photography Profession, i always wanted to learn it as a hobby, but was scared that lack of information might be very dangerous. Your reply proves the point and does teach a lot to all those who think Photography is a piece of cake. One should be honoured to receive a reply like this, I am glad I came through this post

Thanks
sephi

@Vaibhav: I'll probably point you to this post first :-) but seriously, it is meant for a certain kind of emails and those will probably not stop unfortunately.
@Swarnab: well maybe no controversial but I felt people might feel I might have been too harsh.
Swarnabh Ghosh

I dont think its controversial at all. I think what you've written is very very important because I know a LOT of people who want to be 'photographers' just cause they're bored with what they do and/or think that its a profession that requires absolutely no 'education'. (and i dont necessarily mean formal education).
Vaibhav

I think its fair to give a reply like this. If I ever got a reply such as this, I will definitely be taken aback for once, but I will consider it a fair reply.

Having said that, I wonder if you are going to stop receiving such email, or will the frequency increase :)

Maybe, I will send you one such email - since I at least have spent countless hours trying to understand what basic photography concepts stand for - which should prevent you from copying pasting the above response to me :D

Anyway, I think it is great that you respond to these emails.

Cheers.
sephi

@Shiv: The program has changed quite a lot since I was there in 1990 but this is the Photography department at Haddassa in Jerusalem. http://www.hadassah.ac.il/Site/AcEn/Departments...
Twilight Fairy

said like it is! there're just too many photographers out there.. everyone with a cellphone calls himself one these days.. and yet ppl dont realise that they need to have at least something special in their pictures before they can claim that..
shiv ahuja

Err, silly question, but which photo-school did you go to Sephi?

The ‘Photo Nazi’!

Tags

Previous Post

Next Post

Subscribe via Email

WEDDING PHOTOGRAPHY